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Post Icon Posted: July 20 2004,10:45 pm Post # 1 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
:angry  I have been encountering a small problem lately and was wondering if anybody had any idea's. I have had hard starts intermitantly for a bit now. It turns over just fine but will not start. With a little encouragement from a bit o' starting fluid it starts great just to have it occur again. Maybe not this time or next but eventually. Sometimes it will be a cycle that has to be dealt w/ all day after every stop and others it never occurs. Water/fuel filter is new, fluids are fresh, new OPTIMA batt's (x2 875 MCA). It's a 1998 7.4 454 MPI (310 hp) Mercruiser with a Bravo 1 drive. Any idea's ????? :stupid
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Post Icon Posted: July 20 2004,11:00 pm Post # 2 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Might be a fuel pump relay???  After doing a little research during my little problem with my Blazer, most hi-pressure fuel pump systems have both an electrical relay and also a oil pressure activated switch in parallel.  That way, if your FP relay goes bad while the engine is running, the oil pressure switch will keep power to the pump.

I don't know if merc fuel injection works that way or not.  

Could also be a crank positioning sensor not quite working right also (heat related????).

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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,4:54 am Post # 3 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
I'd just throw a new motor in it and be done with it, but that's just me :D
I hate those kind of nagging problems....on again off again crap.
Have you checked into the ignition switch?  Sometimes those terminals get corroded and will have intermittent failures (I've learned that one from experience :beat ).  Sounds alot like the same symptoms I had and it took me a year to figure it out.  Ended uo going with a separate pushbutton starter switch and a kill switch for the ignition.  No problems since.

Edited by BigBoyToys on July 21 2004,4:56 am



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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,6:10 am Post # 4 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
I would have to lean towards an electrical problem also. I had a similar problem in a car. I found out the problem by listening for the pump when I turned the key on, sometimes it wouldn't come on right away and sometimes it would, replaced the relay and it worked fine after that!...Just something to check!.. :stupid
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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,7:37 am Post # 5 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
How many hours on the boat,  :confused

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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,1:11 pm Post # 6 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
I think it's a fuel prime problem, since he says it fires up just fine if he shoots it with ether.

If this is fuel injected, I think the fuel's bleeding down. On FE systems, when the key is held to start, the fuel pump is bypassed and doesn't kick in until you let go. Try turning the key to just the on position, wait about 5 seconds and then crank it.

I'll bet it will light right off. :good

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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,2:35 pm Post # 7 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
naw -its just a boat problem ..

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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,5:09 pm Post # 8 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (AZKC @ July 21 2004,7:37 am)
How many hours on the boat,  :confused

best guess without being by it would be 150 +/-. I had the engine scanned and it did not throw any trouble codes.
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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,5:30 pm Post # 9 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Ck if your getting power to the pump with the key in the on position. And if yes make sure your getting power to the pump while cranking. If no power, start cking for bad relays maybe even a loose connection in the circuit.

Did it start out real intermittant and progressively get worse or it acts however it wants whenever :break

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Post Icon Posted: July 21 2004,8:17 pm Post # 10 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (Bullitt Bob @ July 21 2004,1:11 pm)
I think it's a fuel prime problem, since he says it fires up just fine if he shoots it with ether.

If this is fuel injected, I think the fuel's bleeding down. On FE systems, when the key is held to start, the fuel pump is bypassed and doesn't kick in until you let go. Try turning the key to just the on position, wait about 5 seconds and then crank it.

I'll bet it will light right off. :good

Right, but if you have a bad relay and the pump don't come on, it won't start that's how I found out my problem by turning on the key and listen for the pump, sometimes it would come on and sometimes it woudn't, a new relay cured it and I would say heat is the culprit because when it was cold it started right up, drive it for a while and park it, 10 minutes later it wouldn't start!.. :(
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Post Icon Posted: July 22 2004,6:34 am Post # 11 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
ahhhh yeah, the dreaded "heat" problem :flamed



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Post Icon Posted: July 23 2004,2:22 pm Post # 12 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (GoFastRacer @ July 21 2004,8:17 pm)
Right, but if you have a bad relay and the pump don't come on, it won't start that's how I found out my problem by turning on the key and listen for the pump, sometimes it would come on and sometimes it woudn't, a new relay cured it and I would say heat is the culprit because when it was cold it started right up, drive it for a while and park it, 10 minutes later it wouldn't start!.. :(

I hear what you're sayin', Art, but 99.9% of people just grab the key and turn, without waiting for the pump to prime up. Every FE system I've seen bypasses the pump in the start position. :peace

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Post Icon Posted: July 23 2004,4:33 pm Post # 13 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Some of the older Mazda's had a set up that the pump relay didn't kick in till you hit the crank position. But they were all carbed so it really doesn't pertain to this topic at all :stupid  :laugh

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Post Icon Posted: July 23 2004,8:21 pm Post # 14 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (Bullitt Bob @ July 23 2004,2:22 pm)
Quote (GoFastRacer @ July 21 2004,8:17 pm)
Right, but if you have a bad relay and the pump don't come on, it won't start that's how I found out my problem by turning on the key and listen for the pump, sometimes it would come on and sometimes it woudn't, a new relay cured it and I would say heat is the culprit because when it was cold it started right up, drive it for a while and park it, 10 minutes later it wouldn't start!.. :(

I hear what you're sayin', Art, but 99.9% of people just grab the key and turn, without waiting for the pump to prime up. Every FE system I've seen bypasses the pump in the start position. :peace

That's true nobody ever thinks about letting the pump build pressure!. :rolleyes The reason they bypass it on the start is so there's full voltage to start with no extra drain on the battery!.. :)
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Post Icon Posted: July 23 2004,9:21 pm Post # 15 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
At least now we're all on the same page. :good  :beer

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Post Icon Posted: July 24 2004,1:39 am Post # 16 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
OK, I have been stuck at work but will be home soon enough. I do hear the pump cycle every time the key is turned on and I too wait for the system to build pressure. The heat could very well be a factor and I have considered changing the fuel pump relay, plugs, etc and starting over. Because it has been so intermittant it is hard to replicate in order to trouble shoot. I'll keep all of posted. BTW, thanks for all the great imput!  :good
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Post Icon Posted: July 24 2004,7:06 am Post # 17 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (Third_Alarm @ July 24 2004,1:39 am)
OK, I have been stuck at work but will be home soon enough. I do hear the pump cycle every time the key is turned on and I too wait for the system to build pressure. The heat could very well be a factor and I have considered changing the fuel pump relay, plugs, etc and starting over. Because it has been so intermittant it is hard to replicate in order to trouble shoot. I'll keep all of posted. BTW, thanks for all the great imput!  :good

I'm sure you'll have this straightened out shortly, whatever the problem is.  :good

If you hadn't mentioned the motor fires right up with starting fluid, I also would've gone along with the ignition problem theory. I know we're dealing with a Chevy, but this has been a nagging issue with lots of guys, including myself, in my Mustang Bullitt club. In the summer heat especially, our cars exhibit the exact same symtoms you're having. Hit the key and you can crank 'til the battery drains and it won't light. Turn the key on, wait 5 seconds and she fires every time. :good

Modern technology.  :stupid

Edited by Bullitt Bob on July 24 2004,7:07 am

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GoFastRacerMale Offline
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Post Icon Posted: July 24 2004,10:06 pm Post # 18 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (Bullitt Bob @ July 24 2004,7:06 am)
Modern technology.  :stupid

Modern or old school, mechanical or electronic,(carb or injection) you still have to have fuel present to start. Carbs have an accellarator pump to deliver fuel on start up, EFI has to have pressure to supply fuel, mechanical injection just have to have the fuel at the nozzles!.. :)

Edited by GoFastRacer on July 24 2004,10:07 pm
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Bullitt BobMale Offline
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Post Icon Posted: July 25 2004,8:40 pm Post # 19 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (GoFastRacer @ July 24 2004,10:06 pm)
Quote (Bullitt Bob @ July 24 2004,7:06 am)
Modern technology.  :stupid

Modern or old school, mechanical or electronic,(carb or injection) you still have to have fuel present to start. Carbs have an accellarator pump to deliver fuel on start up, EFI has to have pressure to supply fuel, mechanical injection just have to have the fuel at the nozzles!.. :)

Right on, Brother Buzz! :good  :beer

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Post Icon Posted: Sep. 10 2004,4:58 am Post # 20 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply
Quote (GoFastRacer @ July 24 2004,10:06 pm)
Modern or old school, mechanical or electronic,(carb or injection) you still have to have fuel present to start.

And that's a fact :D  :eek  :laugh



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