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Topic: A New Record

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AZKC

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1979 20ft Hawaiian Moonraker

Posted: May 01 2005,10:14 am

Post # 1

Interesting day yesterday to say the least :cool

Sleek and Brother Drew came over and helped get the boat running and it sounded pretty good :good

But it only ran for 10 minutes and then something broke

If ya look close you can see #1 intake rocker is missing. It backed out while breaking in the cam. My bad there I'm guessin :beat

We pulled the plugs and had water in most of the cylinders and the #7 plug was smashed. So I knew what had happened. Broke another focking valve :banghead

Its getting pathetic and a bit annoying. But it's only money :rolleyes

All the intake push rods are bent, all the pistons and intake valves have marks where they where smacking each other.

Really interesting pattern developing here and theories abound but no clear reason whats going on. Guess I'll be buying a motor from someone the next time or at least let somebody else build one out of my pieces. I surrender :drink

Thanks again to Sleek and Drew. And after all the trip to Hooters was fun. :drink

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

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Oldsquirt

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Posted: May 01 2005,10:38 am

Post # 2

That really sucks!!!!!!!

From the pics it appears that all the intake valves have made contact with the pistons. Do the pistons all have marks on them? Got any pics of them?

Edited by Oldsquirt on May 01 2005,10:39 am

| Member # 89 | Joined: 2-19-2003 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 01 2005,10:50 am

Post # 3

Most all the valve reliefs have marks. But #7 definately has marks :eek

Ã‚Â

Edited by AZKC on May 01 2005,10:50 am

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 01 2005,10:55 am

Post # 4

Here's a link to the pics on Hotbotpics.com if you want to see full size pics they are really big so I recommend looking at them with a broadband connection or better. Its the first 7 pics. Click thumbnail then click on the pic and you'll get the big picture.

Click Here.

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

Oldsquirt

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Posted: May 01 2005,11:13 am

Post # 5

It was seeing the pics on HotBoatpics.com that sent me over here.

Here's a cropped and expanded pic of the piston. You can clearly see where the intake valve has hit the piston at the left side of the "eyebrow".

I'd be looking at the things that could cause this in ALL cylinders....cam timing, too much lift for the parts combination, intake valves that are a larger diameter than the pistons were designed for.

Edited by Oldsquirt on May 01 2005,11:14 am

| Member # 89 | Joined: 2-19-2003 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 01 2005,11:53 am

Post # 6

If you had about a week I could tell you the whole story. :banghead

This is the 3rd valve I've broke with 2 different sets of pistons and 2 different cams. and its allways #7. The cam in this motor is about .505 lift. We degree'd the cam and it was right on. We're going to reck the cam timing and ck piston to valve clearance later. But with that small of a cam I doubt its a clearence prob.

Is this theory valid :stupid

when the intake rocker stud backed out and the intake wouldn't open, the exhaust opened and hydrauliced the cylinder causing everything to stop bending the push rods and smacking the valves into the pistons. But I'm totally gueesing cause I have no idea.

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 01 2005,12:02 pm

Post # 7

This is a pic of one of the holes, all the intake valve were kissing the pistons. One just kissed a little to much.

Edited by AZKC on May 01 2005,12:03 pm

Attached Image

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

shueman

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Posted: May 01 2005,12:32 pm

Post # 8

Quote (AZKC @ May 01 2005,10:14 am)

...Guess I'll be buying a motor from someone the next time or at least let somebody else build one out of my pieces. I surrender :drink

Ã‚Â

...

Sorry to hear this news....

| Member # 376 | Joined: 2-01-2004 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 01 2005,12:45 pm

Post # 9

The Yami's are looking better all the time. :beat

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

shueman

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Posted: May 01 2005,1:00 pm

Post # 10

Quote (AZKC @ May 01 2005,12:45 pm)

The Yami's are looking better all the time. Ã‚Â :beat

Ã‚Â

Don't flake now for OP6....I'll give ya a ride... :good

....or is that asking for :break

| Member # 376 | Joined: 2-01-2004 |

MrCord

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Posted: May 01 2005,3:16 pm

Post # 11

Wow... That really blows!!! :banghead

Time for a motor with a warranty!

Never Trust Anyone That Talks Too Fast.... They are hoping you miss something!

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procraftkev Male

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Posted: May 01 2005,4:17 pm

Post # 12

Im sorry to hear the bad news KC, With is much as you enjoy putting this motors together and Im sorry to say this I think you should just get a long block and stuff in there.We need you back on the water! :beat

Kickn it @ Havasu!

| Member # 161 | Joined: 7-21-2003 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 01 2005,4:23 pm

Post # 13

Quote (shueman @ May 01 2005,1:00 pm)

Quote (AZKC @ May 01 2005,12:45 pm)

The Yami's are looking better all the time. Ã‚Â :beat

Ã‚Â

Don't flake now for OP6....I'll give ya a ride... :good

....or is that asking for Ã‚Â :break

Ã‚Â

Not flaking, to much fun :beer

I'm sure there's plenty of peeps that need a boat biacht

Keep 2 seats for us we may need it :good

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 01 2005,4:26 pm

Post # 14

Quote (procraftkev @ May 01 2005,4:17 pm)

Not really bad news just part of the game :banghead

Its become kinda of a quest now :beat

I think I'm just being a little sloppy :rolleyes

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

Sleek-Jet

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Posted: May 01 2005,6:31 pm

Post # 15

Actually the bottom end of the motor is in good shape I would guess... We'll pop a few main and rod caps to check things out, the engine was spinning good on the starter.

When the engine quit it wasn't running to hard, you can see it beat the piss out of the one piston, but the cylinder wall is nice and smooth and doesn't show any signs of damage. All the other holes look good.

A complete post-mortem is forthcoming, I want to know what the fock is going on as well. :stupid

A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, educated or illiterate, clever or dull. Give him your heart and he will give you his.

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MrCord

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Posted: May 01 2005,7:22 pm

Post # 16

Either way you go good luck!

Never Trust Anyone That Talks Too Fast.... They are hoping you miss something!

| Member # 1117 | Joined: 3-01-2005 |

Oldsquirt

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Posted: May 02 2005,8:47 am

Post # 17

Quote (AZKC @ May 01 2005,11:53 am)

If you had about a week I could tell you the whole story. Ã‚Â :banghead

It sounds like the only constant here is the block? I'd be wondering about that #7 lifter bore if I kept bending/breaking that valve. Hell, I'd be looking for another block just because that one sounds jinxed

I agree that .505" lift is not much, but that is no reason NOT to check the piston to valve clearance. If it was me, and I saw all those pistons had been tagged, it's one of the fiirst things I'd do. Pulling the timing cover and checking chain/gears and cam timing would be the other. Leave the bottom end together until after youve done that. How about a pic of the timing chain and gears BEFORE disassembly.

Is this the same scenario as the previous failures? Did they also have piston to valve contact? Any pics of those?

Edited by Oldsquirt on May 02 2005,8:59 am

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GlassMan

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Posted: May 02 2005,9:16 am

Post # 18

Quote (AZKC @ May 01 2005,12:45 pm)

The Yami's are looking better all the time. Ã‚Â :beat

Ã‚Â

This is going in the "Saved" file....

It's a fact of Life:

After Monday and Tuesday, even the Calendar says : WTF .......

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HAKUNA MA"TATA" Male

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Posted: May 02 2005,9:35 am

Post # 19

That bites. Sorry to hear I thought youl'd have it this time.

DON'T POKE THE BEAR!

| Member # 1201 | Joined: 3-17-2005 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 02 2005,10:12 am

Post # 20

Quote (Oldsquirt @ May 02 2005,8:47 am)

Quote (AZKC @ May 01 2005,11:53 am)

If you had about a week I could tell you the whole story. Ã‚Â :banghead

Actually its happened with 2 different blocks and 3 different sets of heads. Here's a pic of the timing stuff when I was putting it together.

This is a little different than before in as much as I said before the #1 rocker stud had backed out enough where the valve didn't open. We're going to ck the valve clearance just for piece of mind but I'm sure there is plenty. I keep leaning towards a hydro lock deal because of the #1 rocker issue and the amount of water in the cylinders when we pulled the plugs.

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

Oldsquirt

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Posted: May 02 2005,10:36 am

Post # 21

I do believe that pic identifies your problem. Your gears are not lined up correctly. The keyway is not what you line the cam gear "dot" up with. There should be a "dot" on the crank gear. If you cant see it, you probably have that gear on backwards. When the dots are lined up on the two gears, the keyshould be pointing in line with the #1 cylinder .

Your cam looks to be about two teeth advanced.

Edited by Oldsquirt on May 02 2005,10:38 am

| Member # 89 | Joined: 2-19-2003 |

AZKC

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1979 20ft Hawaiian Moonraker

Posted: May 02 2005,10:52 am

Post # 22

Thats a Comp Cam timing gear there are three keyways with three marks A....O....R its lined up with the 0 which is 4* advanced according to the MFG. I've thought about using the R mark which is 4* retarded. I've read that retarding the cam timing will give you a little more intake valve clearance but you lose a little exhaust clearance. We degreed the cam and it seemed right on, wouldn't have improper gear instalation showed up then :stupid

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

Oldsquirt

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Posted: May 02 2005,11:03 am

Post # 23

When you use that crank gear, you have to match the keyway in the gear to the dot on the gear. That is, if you use the "O" dot you must also use the "O" keyway. If you use the "A" mark on the gear, the "A" keyway must be used.

Any choice you go with, when the gear marks are lined up, the keyway WILL line up #1 cylinder.

| Member # 89 | Joined: 2-19-2003 |

AZKC

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Posted: May 02 2005,11:08 am

Post # 24

What do you mean the keyway will line up with #1 :stupid

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

AZKC

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1979 20ft Hawaiian Moonraker

Posted: May 02 2005,11:14 am

Post # 25

Quote (Oldsquirt @ May 02 2005,11:03 am)

I didn't see any dots on the cam gear just the letters and they are above the keyways. Your theory makes alot of sence. Cause the timing set is the only thing used on all motors that failed. Only catch is the first motor I killed using this set up lasted 15-20 hours till it kicked a rod. And I pretty sure I had the cam gears installed just like that.

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy......

AUTO SAFETY HOUSE

| Member # 29 | Joined: 12-18-2002 |

43 replies since May 01 2005,10:14 am

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