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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 08 2004,1:18 am Post # 1 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Yeah yeah, so my new hobby is gun collecting and Cowboy Action Shooting :good .  Anyone need a little bit of extra $$ for their winter boat work that wants to sell any firearms?  I'll seriously consider all....




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 08 2004,4:56 am Post # 2 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Well mine wouldn't work, they're all tactical pieces!.. :D  :good
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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 08 2004,5:19 am Post # 3 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

ahhh....the ones that are illegal in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornyia :banghead  :banghead

No worries.  It's just a matter of time until I can LEGALLY buy even fully automatic firearms :D  :good   Plans are in motion and now it's a "Hurry up and wait" type thing.  Thinking about going back to gunsmithing school too (Something I did MANY years ago) and maybe even starting up a new gunsmithing shop.




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 08 2004,5:21 am Post # 4 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

And speaking of which, anyone in CA that wants a .50 BMG rifle, just a reminder that after 12/31/04 you will no longer be able to purchase them in CA (Thanks Arnold.....A-HOLE!!! :ass  :ass  )

Better get one now....or better yet, just move outta CA :good  :good


Edited by BigBoyToys on Dec. 08 2004,5:22 am




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 08 2004,7:50 am Post # 5 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I'd sell you mine but I might need it for Armageddon. Besides it's fun to watch the righties dance when I shoot at their feet.


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,12:27 am Post # 6 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I'd sell the boat before I parted with any of my firearms...  :guns  :guns :D


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,12:30 am Post # 7 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I need a gun to shoot the pigeons here!  :guns


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,5:18 am Post # 8 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Dec. 08 2004,6:19 am)
ahhh....the ones that are illegal in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornyia :banghead  :banghead

No worries.  It's just a matter of time until I can LEGALLY buy even fully automatic firearms :D  :good   Plans are in motion and now it's a "Hurry up and wait" type thing.  Thinking about going back to gunsmithing school too (Something I did MANY years ago) and maybe even starting up a new gunsmithing shop.

Mine are all pre-ban but I don't know if I could bring them back in(legally that is)!.. :rolleyes
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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,8:49 am Post # 9 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Dec. 08 2004,1:18 am)
Yeah yeah, so my new hobby is gun collecting and Cowboy Action Shooting :good .  Anyone need a little bit of extra $$ for their winter boat work that wants to sell any firearms?  I'll seriously consider all....

found this pic of me and thought you might get a lol..

My company sent us to a Dude ranch for a team builder,One of the things we did wasa quick draw with real 6 shooters with blanks.

First to make noise won.

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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,11:44 am Post # 10 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

nIce pic, but blanks? :D  :laugh
Mrs BBT wants to get into the CAS stuff, and I'm excited about her getting in to it.  Personally, I can't be standing that long do to physical limitations, or else I'd do it too.  But, I'll be just as happy watching her kick ass on alot of the guys out there.  She is actually quite a good shot.....sometimes even outshoots me :eek  :D  :good  :guns  :guns

Oh well, looks like I may be going back to work soon.  Got a company in Phoenix that wants to hire me.  If we can get together on the $$, then I'll have a bit more $$ to spend on guns....and maybe even another boat (A BIG one this time ;)  )




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,1:32 pm Post # 11 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (GoFastRacer @ Dec. 09 2004,6:18 am)
Quote (BigBoyToys @ Dec. 08 2004,6:19 am)
ahhh....the ones that are illegal in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornyia :banghead  :banghead

No worries.  It's just a matter of time until I can LEGALLY buy even fully automatic firearms :D  :good   Plans are in motion and now it's a "Hurry up and wait" type thing.  Thinking about going back to gunsmithing school too (Something I did MANY years ago) and maybe even starting up a new gunsmithing shop.

Mine are all pre-ban but I don't know if I could bring them back in(legally that is)!.. :rolleyes

If it's a semi automatic rifle with a pistol grip (which they all have), then no, those guns are illeagle in California, no matter pre or post ban...  :beat


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,7:12 pm Post # 12 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Nope my Binelli comes both ways, a friend had a pistol grip and I didn't care for it so I got the regular one, but the magazine is as long as the barrel which is a no no now!.I heard that pistol grips were illegal in Ca regardless.. I also have an SKS, 30rnd mag, bayonnet and all it takes is 5 minutes to convert it over to full auto!.. :D  :good  :good
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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,7:52 pm Post # 13 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

If it doesn't have an "english" stock, then it's considered a pistol grip.

This is considered a pistol grip stock:



And an english stock:


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,9:33 pm Post # 14 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

So you are trying to tell me that my M1 is banned?

The last time I checked it was fine. I'm confused where did you get the definition of pistol grip?


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,9:59 pm Post # 15 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (miller19j @ Dec. 09 2004,10:33 pm)
So you are trying to tell me that my M1 is banned?

The last time I checked it was fine. I'm confused where did you get the definition of pistol grip?

It has always been my understanding that any Monte Carlo style stock is a pistol grip.  Harking back to the times of the single shot muzzle loading pistols, you can see that the Monte Carlo style stockes have a butt plate and comb attatched to a pistol grip.   Not what we consider a pistol grip on modern weapons, but a pistol grip non the less.  It's a dangerous legel loop hole in the statute.

That's what I was told by several people in California (gun dealers and FFL holders).  The ban is how I ended up with a couple of my guns, the previous owners couldn't take them into the state.  One of the people I talked to is a higher up in the NRA in California, and for the life of me I can't think of his name right now...  

He said the law was writen to outlaw the "mean" looking weapons (the AR-15's and AK-47's "assault" weapons), but he was taking the stance that any "pistol" gripped stock is covered by the law.      

Your M1 is probaly fine as it's not classed as an "assault" weapon.  

Anyone have a link to the statute??


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 09 2004,10:28 pm Post # 16 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Here we go:

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
© A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
© A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Section 12776 list the specific banned "assault" weapons.

So the grip of an M1 does protrude below the action, so it could be argued that it is an assualt weapon.  

Gotta love the lawyers...

Here's the statute on the web:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/dwc.htm


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,4:54 am Post # 17 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Let me assure you, M1 Carbines are LEGAL in CA.  The M1 Carbine is my All-Time favorite rifle and you can bet that I own, and am always on the prowl for more, m1 Carbines.  As the laws pertain to the M1 Carbine, technically, there is a way that the "pistol Grip" can be legal in CA, and that is if it came to you that way in it's original military configuration (Assuming that you have a "Real" M1 Carbine and not a commercial one).  However, most of the M1 Carbines that came in the original Military Configuration with a "pistol Grip" also have a folding stock, hence the "Paratrooper" model.  The folding stock is a BIG no no in CA.  
The laws are vague on pistol grips.  You can go to any sporting goods store in CA that sells firearms and buy a Mossberg 500 defender shotgun with a pistol grip on it, and that is legal.  But you cannot buy an "Assault" style weapon with a pistol grip (Ar15/M16 series, AK's, etc.)  It's all about PC.....Political Correctness in CA.  The M1 Carbine does not "Look" like an assault weapon according to the politicians anyways, at least for now.  So, fo4r the most part, as long as you don't convert them to an M2, install a folding stock, or get caught with a larger than 10 rd capacity magazine, for the most part they are legal in just about every other configuration.  I myself have numerous high capacity clips for my M1 Carbines, but NEVER take them out of the gun safe when I go shooting just because of my fear of being charged/convicted of a felony if caught with, say, a 30 rd magazine.  That little charge in itself, could end my ability to have the right to legally own any firearms in the USA.... Felony conviction(s) = No Gun Ownership in the USA.  ANother loophole in the deal, as with the case with the M1 Carbine, is that ANY Firearm that is over 50 years old is classified as a Curio and Relic, and if made before 1898 it is classified as an Antique.  C&R's and Antique laws in CA are the same as the Federal laws.  I thank God every day that the CA state government hasn't tried changing any C&R laws....at least not yet.  I sure love my 1943 M1 Carbine ;)  :D  :good  .  As a footnote, I have received my C&R License from the BATF, and can now purchase firearms over 50 years old without a waiting period and the DROS fees.  I just have to keep a "Bound Book" (Official Record) of all firearms purchased or sold under the Auspice of the C&R license.  The $30 per 3 year fee is well worth it for a C&R License if you collect firearms.  Just 1 purchase pays for the license fee in saved $$ of DROS fees that are usually $65-$75 each firearm.
As for your firearms Art, yes, they would be legal to own in CA, if you were to move to CA and bring them with you.  However, the "illegal" ones would have to be registered with the DOJ.  They cannot make you get rid of something that you already own if you move to CA.  Also, you cannot sell them to anyone that resides in CA if they are on the banned list.
Now, on January 1st, our ability in CA to buy anything in CA in the .50 BMG caliber will disappear and all CA residents that own one by then are required (Yeah right) to register them.  Seems our governor, the gun toting terminator himself, Ahhhhhrrnold, is not quite as gun friendly as he said he was.  In fact, he has done the opposite on many things that he said he would do.  I really can't understand this guy....one day he does a good thing and signs a good law, but the next day he does bad.  I tell ya what, IF he decides to run in our next governor race, and asuming I'm still living in CA, Arnold definitely WILL NOT get my vote. Actions speak louder than words and acting Arnold.  He even threatened to "Kick their butts" directed at some nurses in Long Beach a few days ago.  Imagine that, Arnold threatening to beat up some women nurses, and hegets away with it.  It may have been a joke, but if George W Bush said that, the outcry would be tremendous.  I just don't get it and can't understand why Arnold still has such a high approval rating.......He's BSing an awful lot of Californians that's for sure.




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,5:00 am Post # 18 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (miller19j @ Dec. 09 2004,9:33 pm)
So you are trying to tell me that my M1 is banned?

The last time I checked it was fine. I'm confused where did you get the definition of pistol grip?

The M1 is NOT banned.  In fact, buy as many as you can.  The prices are inching upwards on them for "real" ones and get them while they are still legal in CA, while making a good investment that's sure to make you $$ if you ever decide to sell.




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,5:08 am Post # 19 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Also, keep in mind that here re MANY accesories available to make, say a Ruger Mini-14 into an "Assault" type weapon.  Yet, they are not banned (yet).  Myself, I don't care for the .223 round so I don't own one.
Buy as many guns as you can, while you still can.  Most folks are not aware of a piece of legislature that has been proposed that, if passed, would basically make EVERYTHING that can hold multiple rounds, illegal.  In other words, if passed, only single shot rifles, shotguns, handguns will be legal.  Damn I hate some politicians!!!!! :guns  :guns  :guns  :banghead  :banghead
And for those Californians that are not quite concerned yet, you'd better be.  In Arnold's passing of the law to ban the .50 cal, keep in mind that a 20 gauge slug is bigger than a .50 and a 12 gauge slug is twice the size of a .50 cal.  And, there has been talk in Sacramento about that recently...... Look for a new piece of legislature in the near future for a ban on 20 and 12 gauge shotguns (Once they start and get away with 1 stupid gun law, they keep chipping away at the rest). And, I have also heard talk about another troubling idea....since 00 shot is basically the size of a .30 cal, the Anti-Gun lobbyists are now calling shotguns shooting 00 shot a "Machine gun" since they fire multiple projectiles at the same time in a lethal size caliber.  Damn I hate them Anti-Gun people.  You taking all this in AZKC?  You see what your Liberal buddies are doing? :ass  :ass


Edited by BigBoyToys on Dec. 10 2004,5:13 am




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,5:15 am Post # 20 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I'M going back to just collecting the OLD West style firearms.  Colt Peacemaker, Henry's, Sharps, Old Winchesters, etc.  Let's see the crazy politicians call those assault weapons :rolleyes  :angry  :banghead

Edited by BigBoyToys on Dec. 10 2004,5:16 am




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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,9:22 am Post # 21 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Just wait until someone lights up a Wendy's with an M1 or M1A... that little deffinition of a pistol grip is going to play, it was put there for a reason.  

Enjoy 'em while you can boys.  :D  :guns

My appologies though, I guess I spoke out of turn before.  My point was along the lines that there is a loop hole in the law that allows you to own a gun such as an M1 or Mini-14,  just don't be suprised when it get's closed one day.


Edited by Sleek-Jet on Dec. 10 2004,9:49 am


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,7:38 pm Post # 22 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (BigBoyToys @ Dec. 10 2004,5:00 am)
Quote (miller19j @ Dec. 09 2004,9:33 pm)
So you are trying to tell me that my M1 is banned?

The last time I checked it was fine. I'm confused where did you get the definition of pistol grip?

The M1 is NOT banned.  In fact, buy as many as you can.  The prices are inching upwards on them for "real" ones and get them while they are still legal in CA, while making a good investment that's sure to make you $$ if you ever decide to sell.

Mine will shoot 1 moa 10 shot groups with match ammo. Not real good for a bench rest/varmint gun. But dam good for a M1. Oh mine is a Garand. The carbines are way too loud for me!  :guns


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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,8:55 pm Post # 23 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

This is a pistol grip Super M90 Tactical 6+1. I know this one is illegal!. :(

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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,8:58 pm Post # 24 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

This is mine, the exact same thing but non pistol grip and it's legal. If it ain't than just about every shotgun out there is illegal!. :stupid

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Post Icon Posted: Dec. 10 2004,9:03 pm Post # 25 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Now please don't say that this is illegal!.. :D  :laugh

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