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shuemanMale Offline
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,7:23 am Post # 1 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

JetSet posted this shot (on the Yamaha board) from March 2005, showing the low water conditions just north of the Needles bridge....



One of our Yamaha peeps has owned property there since the mid-60's.  Here's a shot from his seawall taken in Sept....


He was telling me about the flood in the early 80's.  There was so much run-off that the water was coming OVER the top of Davis Dam.

This shot shows them standing on the upper seawall... :eek


Never knew this before, as we mainly did our boating around Blythe and Parker back then.


Edited by shueman on Nov. 04 2006,6:54 am
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,7:33 am Post # 2 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

WOW!! There is just a little change!!  :eek


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,4:01 pm Post # 3 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I recall something from before my boat owning days which began 16 years ago.  Some poor decisions were made on lake levels along the Colorado River before some heavy rains.  After the rains came, the lakes couldn't contain it and the river flooded.  The only details I remember was specifically concerning Lake Mead.  Everyday the local newspaper reported the latest.  As the water of the lake climbed, they opened the gates completely.  When the water still rose, they bypassed the generators.  The water still rose to the spillway though.  The paper, then, reported daily on how high the lake was ABOVE the spillway level and it was several feet. :eek

Does anyone remember when this happened or have any additional info on this? :stupid

Maybe that was when this pic was taken? :stupid

This pic is titled 82Flood, so that sounds like the time.






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,4:07 pm Post # 4 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Spring of 84 (or maybe 83... can't remember right now) was a record run off year... all the lakes and dams were over capacity... that was the year the spill-ways came apart at Powell and they had to put Plywood up accross the dam to hold water back while the tunnels were repaired.

Runoff peaked at something like 2 million CFS along the Colorado river that year...  :eek  :eek


Edited by Sleek-Jet on Oct. 23 2006,4:09 pm


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,4:17 pm Post # 5 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Sleek-Jet @ Oct. 23 2006,4:07 pm)
Spring of 84 (or maybe 83... can't remember right now) was a record run off year... all the lakes and dams were over capacity... that was the year the spill-ways came apart at Powell and they had to put Plywood up accross the dam to hold water back while the tunnels were repaired.

Runoff peaked at something like 2 million CFS along the Colorado river that year...  :eek  :eek

Thanks Sleek! :good  Those dates helped me find the info I was looking for. Some info found on: http://www.hewett.norfolk.sch.uk/curric/NewGeog/NAmerica/colo_eng.htm



Quote
Corp. of Engineers  Perspective
by Stoyan Gotzev

Why did the Colorado River flood?
The Colorado River flooded because:
1) The calculations made by the B.R. (Bureau of Reclamation),the U.S Corp Engineers and the National Weather Service were wrong.

2) The usual pattern of snowpack in the high mountains of the Colorado River Basin is for it to peak in April and then sharply decrease in May and June as the snow melts.In 1983 storms swept over the basin throughout May,together with unusually low temperatures, resulting in the unprecedented situation of the snowpack moisture apparently being higher on June 1 than on May 1. The Memorial Day turned very hot causing the snow to melt rapidly and this heat continued into June.The volume of water from the melting snow was increased by an executive (large) rainstorm in the latter part of June that caused a new peak in the river flow above Lake Powell.The netresult is that the April-July runoff is expected to be the highest in recorded history.

3) The Bureau of Reclamation delayed making large water releases from Lake Mead and Lake Powell until June 1983.The releases,when they were started,were massive and caused widespread demage to resorts and marinas along the river.

4) The Bureau of Reclamation tried to keep the reservoirs as full as
possible to accomodate the Central Arizona Project,failing to realize that there was not enough room in the reservoirs to hold the sudden rise of water because of melting snow.

Was the flood natural or was it caused by humans?
According to me, it was both natural and caused by humans. Natural because the change of the weather was not usual for this part of the season and the scientists were totally confused,by this.
Caused by humans because we humans have changed the Colorado River Basin from a natural system to a control system,in order to turn an irregular and unpredictable discharge into a regulated flow.

Who is to blame?
The Bureau of Reclamation,The Bureau of Land Managment, The U.S Corp Engineers,The National Weather Service;all these institutions are guilty in one way or another.






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,4:22 pm Post # 6 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote
Bureau of Land Management Perspective
by Laura Betts

The 1983 Flood
Many people criticised and blamed the Bureau of Land Management for the flood in 1983, which resulted in millions of dollars worth of damage for Yuma. But although we do accept some responsibility for the flood, we are not prepared that it was entirely our fault. Yes, we did approve detailed blueprints for the development of the flood plain but we were under the impression that the dams and their reservoirs would be strong enough to with stand the snow melt from the Rockies.
The Bureau of Reclamation who monitor and control the dams and their releases of water gave us this reassurance. Therefore, surely they have to accept some responsibility for the flood as they did not calculate or prepare for the unexpected, this being the 'freak' weather conditions. Also the Bureau of Reclamation made the decision to keep the reservoirs behind the dams as full as possible, so maybe if they had begun the releases of water earlier, the flood could have been prevented or the damage could have been decreased.

There is also another Government body who need to accept some blame for the flood and this is the US Corps of Engineers. They obviously made the wrong calculations and consequently the dams and the reservoirs were not made big enough. So we, the Bureau of Land Management do accept some responsibility for the flood and the damage but feel we only hold a small percentage of the blame compared to the Bureau of Reclamation and the US Corps of Engineers.

Proposals for the future
There are many options open to make better use of the Colorado River, but one option that I feel should definitely be considered concerns LA and Las Vegas. They should try to find an alternate water supply, as the water from the Colorado has to travel hundreds of miles through an open pipeline where it is subject to extreme heat and therefore much of the water is lost through evaporation before it even reaches the densely populated cities. So if an alternate pipeline could not be found then more money should be invested into the covering of the pipeline as then this could reduce evaporation rates.

It is argued that the dams themselves are a complete disaster and should be totally removed and to let the river return to its natural flow even if it does mean annual floods. But I don't agree with this. I do believe that the dams could be controlled and maintained better. If the Bureau of Reclamation were to increase the daily flow of water through the dams then this would reduce the pressure behind the dam, which could increase the life span of the dam and also prevent another flood.

Even if the Government bodies didn't want to spend more money on the dams and flood prevention, one thing that could be improved is the communication between the two Bureaus, the Corps of Engineers and the local people. This would mean that the two bureaus could discuss the problems if they arose and therefore work together. Also the local people should be informed earlier so they can make there own choices on whether they want to stay or not.

But before they authorised all this development, maybe they should have considered all the risks involved. They are trying to build on a naturally hot and dry desert, and trying to control a river which is genuinely wild with great seasonal fluctuations in discharge which makes it virtually impossible to predict and control.






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,4:23 pm Post # 7 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote

Bureau of Reclamation Perspective
by Lucy Hook

We were appointed by the US congress to manage the flow of the water in the Colorado river.

After the 1983 flood
Many people who were affected by the recent (1983) devastating floods were invited to the meeting to express their points of view on the matter and to hear what those partly responsible had to say.
 
We at the United States Bureau of Reclamation (USBR) felt that the local people thought we were equally to blame for the flood along with the Bureau of Land Management who encouraged the development of the flood plain and the US Corps of engineers who built the dam. We accept this and admit that we were partly to blame,however the residents didn't seen to understand that it was the US Corps of engineers and not us who set up the regulations for flood control. From these regulations we provided the recommended storage space behind the dam. Although the USBR feels that the freak weather conditions played a large part in the flooding the people in the meeting didn't. They thought the dam should be able to protect them whatever the weather.  

Also present at the meeting were a council official from Los Angeles and a Mexican farmer. Some of the water stored in the reservoir behind the dam is piped off to LA this means that less than 1% of the water at the source of the river reaches the mouth of the river in Mexico.  Mexico therefore has little water to irrigate with so the land surrounding the river is  useless.

It was suggested at the meeting that if we had kept less water in the reservoir behind the dam then the dam would have been able to cope with the record discharge that occurred.  The reservoir has to be kept at a constantly high level so that it contains enough water for the local community and with enough also to pipe off to LA  Money from LA helped finance the dam project.

Plans for the Future.
(1) We think that the Bureau of Land Management should encourage further development of the Yuma area as far away from the river as possible.

(2) We think the pipeline from the reservoir to LA should be covered as it isn't at the moment.  This would prevent evaporation.  At the moment there is 75% evaporation along the pipeline.  Less evaporation would mean the reservoir levels could be kept lower making the river less likely to flood and it would also mean Mexico would receive more water.  

(3) We think more money should be invested to get better/more accurate weather predictions so we are more prepared for freak weather conditions and can respond accordingly.






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,4:29 pm Post # 8 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote
Environmentalist Perspective
by Rachel Craythorne

I currently work for the Grand Canyon National Park and I feel it is my duty to let people know of the damage mankind have done to this unique region of the world. As part of my daily life I see the destruction that the Hoover Dam and Glen Canyon Dam cause.


Who is to blame and why did the flood occur?
In 1983 the Dams were pushed to their limits as snow melt in spring exceeded predictions. As  a result, Lake Mead and Lake Powell became too full and mounting pressure upon their structures caused the Bureau of Reclamation to release excessive amounts of water within 9 days, with no real plan or warning.

The US corp. of engineers and the Bureau of reclamation were responsible for the calculations of annual snow melt and precipitation and the maintenance of the reservoirs. Increasing temperatures may explain the increased snow melt, however this has only occurred due pollution of the atmosphere. Floods were a natural feature of the local area prior to the building of the dams. Because floods were frequent and small scale they created relatively little damage.
However, the land downstream of the dams had 'got used' to not being flooded, so the sudden increased flow lead to excessive damage that would not have occurred naturally.

Problems with the current dams
The freshwater reservoirs are very deep and have steep sides, neither of which factors lend themselves to habitats for flora or fauna. Bio diversity has decreased dramatically, with many native species being wiped out due to lack of naturally occurring habitats.
The Cottonwood, for example can no longer be found along the banks of
the Colorado. This is due to ground water depletion and inundation of the reservoirs, along with increasing industrial and agricultural pollution. Such plants rely on sandy beaches, a natural feature of the
local environment, and the annual floods.

Careless management practices have led to the serious decline native
fish population. Introduced game fish prey on the native endangered species, pushing them ever closer to extinction. By the very nature of rivers, the suspended load of the Colorado is dropped upon entering
both reservoirs. This is resulting in less and less storage room for water
as the reservoirs are being filled in by silt.

Once water is released from the reservoirs it has no suspended load. This causes increased vertical erosion in the areas downstream from the dams and yet more irreparable damage.

And the Future....
Initially, Lake Powell was necessary for the generation of hydroelectric
power and it's water storage. The power produced is no longer needed (more convenient alternatives have been introduced) and it's water storage is estimated to only be needed once in a century. This 1.3 million acre feet of water could, I'm sure, be put to better use in areas
such as Mexico, where large areas of land have become unproductive due to the lack of annual floods. Besides, areas such as Los Angeles that would have to rely on water stored in the Lakes can afford alternatives such as purification / desalination of salt water. Therefore I propose that the Glen Canyon Dam is no longer needed and draining of Lake Powell should begin immediately. However, I believe that the Hoover Dam should remain intact, and Lake Mead should only be part drained. The available storage space should then be utilised in times of high precipitation levels or excessive snow melt.






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,4:34 pm Post # 9 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote
And the Future....
Initially, Lake Powell was necessary for the generation of hydroelectric
power and it's water storage. The power produced is no longer needed (more convenient alternatives have been introduced) and it's water storage is estimated to only be needed once in a century. This 1.3 million acre feet of water could, I'm sure, be put to better use in areas
such as Mexico, where large areas of land have become unproductive due to the lack of annual floods. Besides, areas such as Los Angeles that would have to rely on water stored in the Lakes can afford alternatives such as purification / desalination of salt water. Therefore I propose that the Glen Canyon Dam is no longer needed and draining of Lake Powell should begin immediately. However, I believe that the Hoover Dam should remain intact, and Lake Mead should only be part drained. The available storage space should then be utilised in times of high precipitation levels or excessive snow melt.


I guess she is banking on not needing the water in her part of the century... :rolleyes

Biodiversity... yeah, a couple trash fish and maybe a few more beaches for the rafters to use.  And the lack of hydro-power out of Glenn Canyon has contributed to increased atmospheric pollution across the Great Basin, due to the coal fired plants having to produce more power.  

Focking tree huggers... :angry


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,6:27 pm Post # 10 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Sleek-Jet @ Oct. 23 2006,4:07 pm)
Spring of 84 (or maybe 83... can't remember right now) was a record run off year... all the lakes and dams were over capacity... that was the year the spill-ways came apart at Powell and they had to put Plywood up accross the dam to hold water back while the tunnels were repaired.

Runoff peaked at something like 2 million CFS along the Colorado river that year...  :eek  :eek

I have seen pictures of the plywood "flashboards" across the top of Glen Canyon Dam...... scary :eek


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,6:49 pm Post # 11 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote
And the Future....
Initially, Lake Powell was necessary for the generation of hydroelectric
power and it's water storage. The power produced is no longer needed (more convenient alternatives have been introduced)


Maybe the tree huggers could take turns spinning the generator wheel to produce power the there houses.....


Edited by Carrera Elite on Oct. 23 2006,6:49 pm


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,6:55 pm Post # 12 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Found an article in the New York Times archives from 1983...
NY Times - July 1983

Chart of the river flows....peaks during the 80's....

Attached Image
Attached Image

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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 23 2006,8:34 pm Post # 13 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (shueman @ Oct. 23 2006,6:55 pm)
Found an article in the New York Times archives from 1983...
NY Times - July 1983

Chart of the river flows....peaks during the 80's....

Great info Shueman! Thanks for sharing. :good






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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 24 2006,3:50 am Post # 14 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Thanks to the 'net and on-line content.... :D
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 24 2006,5:53 am Post # 15 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Internet to the rescue!.. :D
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 27 2006,9:25 pm Post # 16 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Yeah, thank for sharing!!! :jumpie
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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 27 2006,11:57 pm Post # 17 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

I love how the enviro-wackos justify draining Lake Powell by citing increased erosion.  Holy Crap!  Erosion in the Grand Canyon?  Say it isn't so.


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 28 2006,6:36 am Post # 18 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Those People are Genious'!!  :rolleyes  :eek  :D


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Post Icon Posted: Oct. 28 2006,7:17 am Post # 19 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Quote (Carrera Elite @ Oct. 28 2006,6:36 am)
Those People are Genious'!!  :rolleyes  :eek  :D

RIGHT!.. :rolleyes  :laugh  :rotflmao
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Post Icon Posted: Nov. 03 2006,8:03 pm Post # 20 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

A few more from the '83 Flood, compliments of JetSet....

Davis Dam, 45,000cfs Flood Gate release


Parker Strip at 35,000 cfs


Needles at 43,000 cfs - just below the bridge.


:eek  :bowdown
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Post Icon Posted: Nov. 03 2006,11:51 pm Post # 21 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Mother Nature working her wonders............somegreat pics too :good


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Post Icon Posted: Nov. 04 2006,4:32 am Post # 22 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Cool old pics!.. :good
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Post Icon Posted: Nov. 05 2006,9:36 am Post # 23 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Water levels were back up this weekend!! :good  :jumpie


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Post Icon Posted: Nov. 05 2006,6:36 pm Post # 24 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

That's good news!.. :good
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Post Icon Posted: Nov. 06 2006,6:48 am Post # 25 see this member send this member a private message  quote this post in reply

Saturday was really nice 'til about noon, that's when the wind started.....


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